Expanding Chattanooga Green Citizen Access

Comment by Loop Studios on November 1, 2009 at 11:00am

Just keep in mind these are not official group pages of Chattanooga Green. They will not reflect information collected in the official meetings. Facebook groups are actually harder to deal with than the groups here, so you may not have a positive experience either.

Ms. Sutton has created these groups so that she can be in control of what's going on.

Comment by Lana Sutton on November 2, 2009 at 10:04pm

I created these groups so that citizens can participate, and because you have deleted the accounts of citizens for suggesting that the team participation needs to be opened up for more citizens than lobbyists.
There's nothing like walking into one of these "citizen" meetings, most of which are held at times most citizens are at work, and finding a bunch of bureaucrats and political insiders dissolving the citizens team's advisory power to the mayor. It's even worse watching that team give that power to a group of developers, home builders and other development-industry reps.
The Facebook teams will give more access to the citizens than your advertising site is willing to give. Your group is trying to greenwash: control the size and makeup of the teams, and the message. I'm trying to get citizens in to witness this travesty, and turn it around.

Comment by Loop Studios on November 3, 2009 at 1:25am

There was no deleting of citizen(s) account(s) - it was one account only - yours - and it was reinstated as soon as I knew of what had happened.

As far as what goes on in all the meetings - I have no control over that and I only know what happens in the meetings I attend, which have all been fantastic so far.

The Facebook teams will only serve to forward your personal agenda, which is becoming questionable.

Comment by Loop Studios on November 3, 2009 at 1:31am

Of course there is advertising here, there is plenty of it on Facebook as well (actually that's how Facebook makes money period). The only difference is that the companies listed here are truly green, and are helping the local economy here.

I'll have to admit that I like seeing the Collier ads much better than the "Find Hot Singles Now" ad that I saw in one of your groups.

Comment by Lana Sutton on November 3, 2009 at 8:51pm

I don't sell ads at all.
I don't have a profit-making agenda.
I'm trying to get actual citizens on some of the city teams that seem overrun with political insiders. I'm trying to activate those teams that seem to have collapsed, or are going nowhere, because I want these teams to work, not to be an attempt at greenwashing in my name.
And, yes, I'm exposing that citizen participation is difficult and lacking in this venue.
Why are you and the city bureaucrats so resistant to getting citizens involved through email and facebook and other social networking sites? You're trying to make it look like opening participation to citizens (those without a profit or political motive) is some kind of threat.
It's not.
The danger is not having citizen leadership and participation, and going out of your way to make them feel uncomfortable and persecuted.

Comment by Loop Studios on November 4, 2009 at 12:19am

I know you don't sell ads lol, but Facebook does. That's what I was talking about. Your relationship to Facebook is the same as Chattanooga Green's relationship to GreenerChattanooga.com. They offer you the service of their site, and in turn sell/show ads around your pages. Same deal here. I was simply pointing out that the ads on Facebook are rarely green companies and even less likely to be local companies. Once again, I'm not making a profit on this site either - it COSTS me money to keep up. But, I'm certainly not opposed to trying to offset those costs. If the site ever does generate a real profit, I fully intent to put that revenue into advertising green "stuff" in Chattanooga.

I'm not opposed to you getting more people involved, I think it's great. I just don't think you're going about it the right way. As far as determining who is a citizen or not, you certainly are putting yourself up on a high horse. However, you have some good points about some issues that certainly should be heard - like active TVA employees related to energy programs chairing groups. As far as the meeting times, I only know about the groups I'm a member of (as a private citizen). I don't represent Chattanooga Green in meetings so I don't keep up with groups that I don't participate in. The meeting times of the groups I'm in are very amenable with the members and I haven't heard any complaints. But I don't think we are on any teams together, so that doesn't say anything about your issues. I honestly don't know a good solution to meeting times. I don't like the idea of conference calls because I think they just turn into shouting matches where people talk over one another and nothing gets done. I really like the idea of online meetings, but both those and calls still have time issues. I have a chat feature on this site where you can open up a window and talk with anyone else who's online but I don't know how many people would use that.

It's been explained many times why this site was chosen to host the groups, I'm not going to beat that horse anymore. Email doesn't work well at all for discussion, but I would agree that reminder emails function quite well. I've spend a great deal of time polishing how some of the email notifications from this site work. Several group leaders like the functions of the group emails so well, that they no longer send regular emails out. If a group chair uses the send message to group function, it's exactly like sending direct emails out to a mailing list - except that list is kept by the group and can be accessed anywhere. I'm not opposed to Facebook integration, but I don't think a second set of groups will help anything. It's just splitting up the conversation.

Comment by Lana Sutton on November 4, 2009 at 4:52pm

The idea about email notifications and updates was proposed to bureaucrats months ago, and was in that blog that got me deleted. I like it, as long as the emails are sent to all members, not just chairs, and that the emails genuinely reflect what's going on at the meetings. They should also give citizens a chance to participate in what goes on before the meeting.
That way citizens aren't blindsided by decisions made between meetings, such as finding out their new chairman is from the development industry, or is a former city council woman, appointed by bureaucrats, not citizens.
I think those emails should be sent to everyone who signed up for the groups, since so many folks tell me they have been unable to use Greener Chattanooga for whatever reason. For example Wade Swicord said he is still "banned," and can not get back on Greener Chattanooga. Can you reinstate him?

Comment by Loop Studios on November 4, 2009 at 9:47pm

I have not heard of anyone that is unable to use this site, but I believe you. I would like to hear from them and am always willing to help anyone get signed up. You can give them my personal email address or info{at}greenerchattanooga.com.

The emails go to everyone in the group, not just the chair - especially since the chair is usually the one sending the notices. Tomorrow the new group updates page should be up and running which will show everyone who is interested a synopsis of each group's current activities. I think it will be a really neat tool!

Wade's main account is still active, which can be seen by searching for his name above. He had three different accounts that were consolidated into one. His main account which has blog posts and group posts is the one that I left active but I guess he just can't figure it out. I'll put his other account back but there's nothing on it so I don't see what that is going to accomplish. It doesn't help that his emails are downright rude and demeaning.

Comment by Lana Sutton on November 6, 2009 at 8:59pm

Wade said he was notified that he was "banned" by Greener Chattanooga, and that he is unable to use any of the sites you say he made when he couldn't get the others to work. Perhaps your situation with Wade is like when I was deleted, and you spent a week trying to "figure out" why you kept sending me dozens of invites to each of the 17 teams that didn't work.
He is also not impressed with the level of rudeness of your staff towards members of Chattanooga Green, and how long it takes to get things done on behalf of citizens.
Perhaps he's thinking like I do that this site is not set up for citizen's convenience, but some other interest.

Comment by Loop Studios on November 8, 2009 at 2:45pm

Wade's situation is nothing like yours. I'm the only one that has talked to Wade about this and he is the only one that is rude - extremely rude. I have every single one of his emails which I'd be happy to share if you like. Wade situation is shockingly simple. He had three accounts. Two were removed. Neither account that was removed has ANY posts, group memberships, etc. His account main account with all his content is still active, and can be viewed by anyone searching for his name on the site. If he forgot his password, it is easy to get a new one by clicking the "Forgot Password" link on the sign in page. Same procedure for 10 million other websites. Now, his statement that he has not been able to use his active account is an outright lie - he has logged on, and I have a record of it. However, I will have one of my guys put his other account back and remove the other one which he claims doesn't work.

As far as your situation, I feel at this point that either it has something to do with your computer/setup or you purposefully denied the invites/or ignored them to dramatize your story even more. Many other people were invited around the same time, and three of us spent quite a bit of time inviting test accounts - all of which worked just fine. Your requests to join worked just fine, which basically uses the same commands as the join invite.

You need to be more careful with your terminology, as you tend to twist the facts significantly by doing so (maybe that is your goal). Neither of you are members of "Chattanooga Green" technically, you are members of "Chattanooga Green's Climate Action Teams". You and Wade are the only two that have had any complaints, which with the current group memberships amounts to 0.9%.

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